What is the role of higher education in a democracy? To what extent should American universities respond to the demands of those in power? Are we meeting this moment? As a former governor, cabinet secretary, and university president, Secretary Janet Napolitano is uniquely positioned to address these questions. She spoke with Michael Berkman, director of the McCourtney Institute for Democracy and professor of political science at Penn State.

This conversation is, in many ways, a follow up to the one that Michael had with Penn State professor Brad Vivian at the end of 2025.

Napolitano is a professor of public policy and director of the new Center for Security in Politics at the University of California, Berkeley Goldman School of Public Policy. A distinguished public servant, she served as the president of the University of California from 2013 to 2020, as the U.S. Secretary of Homeland Security from 2009 to 2013, as Governor of Arizona from 2003 to 2009, as Attorney General of Arizona from 1998 to 2003, and as U.S. Attorney for the District of Arizona from 1993 to 1997.

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Ayesha Rascoe, host of NPR’s Weekend Edition Sunday and Weekend Up First, joins us to discuss what it’s like being a political reporter in a polarized country and what the “public” in public media looks like amid the loss federal funding.

Rascoe joined NPR in 2018 and served as White House correspondent during the first Trump administration and the Biden administration. We talk about covering the White House and how her work covering energy policy prepared her for covering day-to-day politics. 

She is also the editor of HBCU Made: A Celebration of the Black College Experience, a book of essays about the impact of historically Black colleges and universities. Rascoe is an alumnae of Howard University, where she was editor of the school newspaper.

You might notice that this episode is shorter than usual. That’s because a dead car battery on a very cold winter morning in Pennsylvania delayed us getting to the recording studio. We apologize and will be back to normal on the next episode. 

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Democracy is often framed as a battle between political candidates or parties that have opposing viewpoints and are trying to win over voters to join their side. However, there’s another way to think about democracy as a system of self governance that everyone shares and has a stake in preserving and protecting.

Jeremy David Engels articulates the latter point of view in the book, On Mindful Democracy: A Declaration of Interdependence to Mend a Fractured World. The book blends Engels’s prior work studying democratic theory and history with his experience in yoga, meditation and Buddhism. 

Engels joined us to discuss the concept of mindful democracy and why it’s important to consider during the 250th anniversary of America’s founding. He describes how we can — and should — consider a “declaration of interdependence” in addition to the Declaration of Independence the country is celebrating this year. We also talk about the different conceptions of democracy outlined by John Dewey and Walter Lippmann 

Engels is Liberal Arts Professor of Communication Arts and Sciences at Penn State and a mindfulness and yoga teacher. You can find him in the classroom, lecture hall, on a meditation cushion, or a yoga mat, sharing his insights on how to become capable, compassionate, and engaged democratic citizens.

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AI is changing many aspects of our lives, so it’s reasonable to expect that it will impact democracy, too. The question is how? Two experts in technology and politics join us to discuss how we can harness AI’s power to strengthen democracy. Yes, there will be deepfakes and automated misinformation, but there can also be greater opportunities for the government to serve people and for all of us to have a greater say in our systems of self governance.

In their book Rewiring Democracy: How AI Will Transform Our Politics, Government, and Citizenship, Bruce Schneier and Nathan E. Sanders describe how AI could change political communication, the legislative process, bureaucracy, the judiciary, and more. It’s a more hopeful argument than you might expect. They discuss how AI’s broad capabilities can augment democratic processes and help citizens build consensus, express their voice, and shake up long-standing power structures. As they say in the interview, AI is just a tool; how we use it is up to us.

Schneier is a security technologist and the New York Times bestselling author of 14 books, including A Hacker’s Mind. He is a lecturer at the Harvard Kennedy School, a board member of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, and Chief of Security Architecture at Inrupt, Inc.

Sanders is a data scientist focused on making policymaking more participatory. He has served in fellowships at the Massachusetts legislature and the Berkman-Klein Center at Harvard University.

Related Episodes

The Problem(s) with Platforms (Cory Doctorow)

Building Better Bureaucracy (Jennifer Pahlka)

Laboratories of Restricting Democracy (Virginia Eubanks)

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In the aftermath of the U.S. intervention in Venezuela, we explore how rising political divides are leading to bigger swings in America’s foreign policy — and what that means for our future in the liberal international order.

In her book Polarization and International Politics: How Extreme Partisanship Threatens Global Security, Rachel Myrick argues that polarization reshapes the nature of constraints on democratic leaders, which in turn erodes the advantages democracies have in foreign affairs. We discuss how the pendulum swing from one administration to another leads to instability in foreign affairs. As a result, Myrick says the United States loses both reliability as an ally and credibility as an adversary. Myrick also questions the longstanding thinking that having a common enemy to focus on is enough to overcome polarization, as it was during the Cold War.

Myrick is the Douglas & Ellen Lowey Associate Professor of Political Science at Duke University. Her research explores how partisan polarization affects foreign policymaking in democracies, with an emphasis on U.S. national security policy. 

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While Democracy Works is on winter break, we’re bringing you an episode from our colleagues at The Context, a podcast from the Charles F. Kettering Foundation and a fellow member of The Democracy Group podcast network. Host Alex Lovit looks back at the advice from the show’s guests this year about how everyday people can get involved in fighting authoritarianism and encouraging citizen engagement. 

You’ll hear from:

• Ece Temelkuran, Turkish writer and author of  How To Lose a Country, the Seven Steps From Democracy to Fascism
• Daniel Hunter, educator with Freedom Trainers and director of Choose Democracy,
• Deva Woodly, professor of political science at Brown University and nonresident fellow at Kettering
• Maria Stephan, co-lead and chief organizer at Horizons Project
• Sharon L. Davies, president and CEO of the Charles F. Kettering Foundation
• Steven Levitsky, professor of government at Harvard and co-author of How Democracies Die
• John C. Yang,  president and executive director of Asian Americans Advancing Justice

We hope this episode leaves you feeling inspired about what you can do to strengthen democracy in 2026 and beyond. Thank you to the team at The Context for sharing it with us!

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We end this season where we started — a conversation about higher education and democracy. This time, Michael Berkman, McCourtney Institute for Democracy director and professor of political science at Penn State, sits down with Brad Vivian, professor of communication arts and sciences at Penn State and author of Campus Misinformation: The Real Threat to Free Speech in American Higher Education. 

Berkman and Vivian discuss the Compact for Academic Excellence in Higher Education, a proposal issued to several universities by the Trump administration earlier this fall. The compact offers benefits like increased access to federal grants and contracts and priority handling of student visas in exchange for changes in admission practices, a commitment to institutional neutrality, and other demands. Vivan outlines how the compact goes against many of the core values in higher education and what make universities an essential part of American democracy. 

Beyond the compact, Berkman and Vivian also talk about how education might be a contributing factor in America’s growing political divide and how university faculty and leadership should think about this divide.

This is our final episode of the year. We will be back with new episodes in January. From our entire team, happy holidays and we’ll see you in 2026!

Mentioned in this episode:

• Why I’m Excited About the White House’s Proposal for a Higher Ed Compact – Danielle Allen
• Polarized by Degrees: How the Diploma Divide and the Culture War Transformed American Politics – Matt Grossmann and David A. Hopkins 
   

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It’s easy to blame algorithms and AI for corroding our information ecosystem, but our guest this week argues that we have just as much, if not more of a role to play in creating the environment we want to see. 

Ray Block Jr. is the Brown-McCourtney Career Development Professor at Penn State and the Michael D. Rich Chair in Countering Truth Decay and RAND Corporation. He joins us to discuss the new report, “Rebalancing the Information Ecosystem and Renewing Shared Societal Commitments for Information Use,” published by RAND earlier this fall. 

Block’s scholarly research includes community organizing and social identity. You’ll hear that perspective come through in this conversation, which focuses on how social fabric — not fact checking or tech policy —is the key to creating a healthy information environment and, in turn, a healthy democracy.

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Paul Martin was fired from his role as USAID Inspector General after he published a report warning that the Trump administration’s plans to dismantle USAID placed more than $480 million in food and other commodities in danger of spoilage or theft. Martin joins us to recount the chaotic few months leading up to his termination from USAID and how his firing fits into a broader assault on independent government oversight and Constitutional checks and balances that are essential to American democracy.

Martin served as Inspector General for USAID from January 2024 through February 11, 2025. He previously served for fourteen years as Inspector General for NASA and Vice Chair of the Pandemic Response Accountability Committee. He received a bachelor’s degree in journalism from Penn State, where he was part of The Daily Collegian, and a law degree from Georgetown Law. 

His lecture, which also features former U.S. Rep. Charlie Dent, is available on the McCourtney Institute’s YouTube channel.

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We bring you a special crossover episode with Disorder, a show that explores the fundamental principles lurking behind today’s most pressing global issues. Jenna Spinelle talks with Disorder host Jason Pack, an associate fellow at the Royal United Services Institute and author of Libya and the Enduring Global Disorder. They discuss the state of democracy around the world and why making America’s government more like a European country might not be the solution to polarization that some democracy reformers hope it will be. 

Listen to Disorder

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